+ Episode Transcript

Thor Challgren 0:00
Welcome to Your Turn To Fly, the Empty Nester Living Show. Hey, I'm so excited for you to hear today's interview. If you've listened to my podcast before, you may notice it's a little different. I go into why I made this change in episode number 27 titled appropriately enough, "Big Announcement. Let's Talk About Change." So take a listen to that episode. If you haven't yet, I dive into why I made the change and the new direction for the podcast.

Thor Challgren 0:34
My guest today is Tina Souder. Tina is an empty nester parent herself, and she is a licensed family counselor. In this episode, we talk about her own experience watching her son's head off into the world and also her insights from working with people to help them deal with change. We talked about how to really listen to your kids now that they're adults, when you have to bite your tongue, and specific ways to give advice without pushing them away. We also talked about how having the extra time allowed her to complete a career change and the mindset she developed to make that change work. And finally, we talked about how to embrace this big change in life and the importance of working through the normal emotional feelings, even the grief that come from being an empty nester parent. If you are looking for a little encouragement and support in this transition in your life, this is something I specialize in. I'm a certified life coach, and I work with parents just like you. If you're in that season of life, I'd love to talk with you. Let's do our first call for free. Just go to discover.yourturntofly.com and schedule that free call. That's discover.yourturntofly.com. Alright, let's jump into today's episode. I hope you enjoy my interview with Tina Souder.

Thor Challgren 2:11
Tina, welcome to the show today. How are you?

Tina Souder 2:14
Hi, Thor. I'm awesome. How are you today?

Thor Challgren 2:17
I'm fantastic. I'm so excited to have you on the show today. And you know what's interesting is I feel like you have an interesting perspective. Because you are, as we've discussed before, you're an empty nester parent yourself. And you're also a licensed professional counselor. So I'd like to talk with you not only about your own experience as a parent, but then also how you see these kind of big changes that we go through in life from the perspective of someone who helps people professionally. So does that sound good? That sounds great. Fantastic. Well, let's start with telling me about your own empty nester journey. And I feel this is an interesting thing, because this is the kind of change that we as parents can see coming. It's not a surprise to us that at some point in our life, our kids are going to leave home. And yet it can still kind of hit us sometimes as a, something we're not prepared for. How ready Do you think you were? When your first child, the first kid started leaving house,

Tina Souder 3:27
I thought I was ready. I had been through, I had a brother that was about 12 years younger than me. So I remember him when I left the house. It was hard on him. And then when he graduated, it was almost as if it was my child. So I felt like I've done it once I've got it down. So when my first one goes out, it'll won't be a big deal. But I feel like I didn't prepare myself enough. Because when he went it was really hard. And one of those things I thought I had under control, but obviously did not. And it was tough.

Thor Challgren 4:02
What about it was tough, do you think?

Tina Souder 4:04
I think it was because I hadn't prepared myself to just what it would feel like when he drove off that first day. He only went it was a three hours away. So it wasn't just a long ways from me. But at the same time driving off and knowing that I was not going to see him every single day and wasn't going to just be able to check on him. And it was hard. It was really hard.

Thor Challgren 4:26
I wonder too i because this is my experience was that last summer that they're at home, you're so busy doing all these things, getting them ready to go, you know, whether it's the graduation parties, it's the hacking, it's the all the thinking about the future. So you're involved and maybe in some ways, those last couple of months are the most involved. You've been with them in a while, and then suddenly you're just cut off. Right?

Tina Souder 4:50
Absolutely. And also, you know, even backing up a little before that the whole senior year often is it's a whirlwind because you're doing so many Senior things and you're involved and you're, you're wanting it to be a great experience for them. And you just before you know it look up and the years over, and then you think, Well, I got the summer, and then it's just gone. It's just gone. Yeah.

Thor Challgren 5:13
Yeah, it almost feels like maybe someone who is struggling, almost like with an addiction where you like, you have to go cold turkey on this thing. I mean, you are, as you say that last year, you're so involved in everything, and then suddenly, it's like, they're gone. And now you have to figure out okay, it's almost like withdraws, I suppose.

Tina Souder 5:35
Yes. And, you know, when my first one left, I did have another one at home. So then I had six years, about five or six years with him. So then you forget, you forget the process again. So you go through those withdrawals. And then you try to pour yourself into the child that's left. And then at the point he's gone, again, you think you have it under control, and it happens again, and I don't think I think you could do this with five or six kids, and you still are going to have that pull at your heartstrings when it's time for them to move on. Just like you said, like an addiction almost. Because it you get so attached to them and having them there every single day, and feeling like they need you when our job has been to make sure that they don't need us anymore, and that they can move on. And then all of a sudden they're gone. So is it it's hard and very eye opening to now what am I going to do? I'm going to have to figure out something for me at this point.

Thor Challgren 6:30
Yeah. What do you think was the most difficult semester for us at that first fall or the spring, the winter, when you can think back was one tougher than the other?

Tina Souder 6:42
I would say the the spring for me because both and I've always played football. So I was going to games. So I would get I would see them regularly during the fall semester. So the spring semester, then I wasn't even going regularly to check on them. And by that time, they were more settled in their dorms and with their friends. And they were locked into what was going on. So they were not coming home to say mom as much at that point, either. So I would say the second semester was probably the hardest.

Thor Challgren 7:11
I also hear some times that people say that's the longer period of time that you go without seeing them. Because in the fall, you could always say, Well, I'll see them at Thanksgiving, or in your case, you know, I'll see them at a football game. So you're only maybe ever one or two months before you get to see them again. Whereas when they leave in January, you may not see them until May, June.

Tina Souder 7:33
Exactly. That is that's a good point. Because that is true.

Thor Challgren 7:36
When your first son left home, did that change the relationship in any way with your son who was still at home?

Tina Souder 7:44
In a sense, it did, I think he was able to spend more time obviously, he had some of the same routines that the oldest son had. And because my kids were so far apart, they were six years apart. I felt like they were pretty, I was able to give them attention in good ways, because of their the age difference in them. But yeah, because he was got 100% on buy attention at that point. And I did I became busier at that point, too. So I started doing more things for myself and, and kind of getting into some business stuff and and come pulling more into a not just mom 100% mode to doing more things to so it kind of changed some dynamics in the home.

Thor Challgren 8:29
What was your life like outside of being a parent that point were you in the career that you are now or did you have other things that occupied your time? Or what was your sort of outside of being a parent? What was your life like then?

Tina Souder 8:42
Well, prior, I was a school teacher first. And then probably around the time I before the first son graduated, started getting into some direct sales business and was kind of running my own business because I wanted to stay home more. So started stopped teaching was doing that. And then after a while of doing that I did go back to school to start working towards getting my counseling license. And so did some college. Typically during most of the time that my youngest son was still at home. So I was going to school, plus, you know, being a parent to a high school age student at that time, and then working towards getting my counseling license at that point.

Thor Challgren 9:22
Did you have your counseling certification by the time he left for college?

Tina Souder 9:28
I was at the point to where I was in my internship, which with an internship when you're an LPC? No in Texas, which is where I'm at, you have to have 3000 hours of clinical experience with a supervisor at that point. So I was right at that point where I was was doing my my internship.

Thor Challgren 9:48
So that was probably in retrospect smart that you had already begun that path before you're sort of empty nester journey started so you weren't just sort of like oh my gosh, what do I do now? You actually already had a plan in place.

Tina Souder 10:02
Yes. And it was really good. And honestly, looking back and looking at what I do now, I couldn't probably have done it at the level I do now, if my kids were still at home, because with counseling, you know, you have to do so many things after school after hours, you're putting in a lot of times when the the prime time when your kids are coming home from school, because people want to get in after work and after school for themselves. So it would have been challenging to have done the counseling at that point. So it kind of just all fell in place and worked out just the way it was supposed to.

Thor Challgren 10:38
That's a great point. Because I think a lot of times when our kids leave, we're so focused on what we don't have, right? I mean, it's natural, you're like, Oh, my God, they're gone. And yet, you can have that perspective that you did, which was well, now this affords me more time to put into my my career, my profession, and I wouldn't have had that before. So that as long as we're open to saying, well, what could be positive about the situation? We're going to find it right.

Tina Souder 11:06
Yes, absolutely. That is so true. And of course, that's what I teach everyday with, with most of my clients is looking for that positive and things that you could look at as negative and really be down and give it up. But you got to keep going.

Thor Challgren 11:21
When you think back to that first year so that both of your boys were out on their own, and they're adjusting to being responsible for their own life. Were there things about them that surprised you, maybe things that you hadn't seen before hidden depths, or capabilities they had where you're like, Oh, this is this is great that they're able to handle this.

Tina Souder 11:43
Yes. And, you know, that's what you worry about. Because it's when they're home, you're telling him to do this, telling them to do that and feel like that. If you don't tell them they'd be they won't get it done. And I was always apparent that, like, I quit waking my kids up when they hit junior high, because I realized you're going to have to learn to get yourself up. So they were already getting themselves up. So I was trying to do those things. But there was still a lot of things. I like to think I didn't enable my kids. But there were a lot of ways I did. So seeing them, actually, when you show up and they've done some laundry and they've done their dishes. And they've actually, you know, been cooking and at home if they're in their apartment. That was really impressive to see that as boys, they they were able to do that.

Thor Challgren 12:32
Did they ever learned that from you when they were at home? Or is Was that a surprise to you that they could cook?

Tina Souder 12:37
Well, the funny thing is my first one, I wasn't so good at teaching him cooking, and even laundry. Now after I made the mistake with him, and I got into college, and we're like, you've got to figure out how to do your laundry. And so with the second one, bless him because he knew how to do everything. And probably thought it was better because brother didn't have to do all that stuff. But by the time he got to college, he knew how to do all of that stuff and cook and and he was pretty self sufficient. So you learn.

Thor Challgren 13:08
At the same time, Were there moments, maybe in that first year, where you got a call from them and they had a problem or something a challenge or crisis that came up where they couldn't solve and they were turning to you for support or answers did anything like that ever happen?

Tina Souder 13:27
Did especially with my oldest he he's always been the one that will call mom if something is going on. And I do recall a time actually I was I was in a hotel room for a week because I was doing summer school finishing up my account my degree from my counseling my master's. And he had called me just very upset one evening because something had happened. And he needed some advice. And it was an I still can remember that time and thinking I'm so glad he called me and didn't call someone else or didn't just lay there worrying about it. But he actually called me and it had to do with his girlfriend at the time that now it's his wife. So we talked about that story still today.

Thor Challgren 14:07
Do you feel like you gave him good advice?

Tina Souder 14:10
I think so I think it ended up working out and he backed off. And they ended up getting back together and married him with two kids now. So yeah, I think it worked well.

Thor Challgren 14:18
Well done. I think that's one of those things that's a challenge is if creating the environment where they feel like they can come back to you and that they can that you could be a sounding board for them that you can be that this is the challenge for them I think is sometimes we don't want to feel like that person is going to say I told you so or why didn't you think of that or you know, any sort of judgment. So the probably the best thing you can do in that circumstances apparent is to just listen and and without judgment without thoughts of Have you really made a mistake here or there is that sort of feel like how you approached it.

Tina Souder 15:00
Absolutely. And you know, and that's what I teach parents that I work with, too. Sometimes it is, you will shut the kids down, if they come to you and you are full of snap recommendations or advice, and why didn't you do or questioning or even making them feel like your decision, their decision wasn't wise. Once you do that, you shut them down, and then they don't feel safe, coming back to you again. So definitely listening sometimes, and you have to bite your tongue as a parent, because it's harder as a parent, because I know it from both sides, though, you know, I'm the parent, listening to my child, it's harder not to be advice giving to your own, then it is I can say it clearly, you know, when I have a family in my office, and they're snapping back, and I can see it, but I also can empathize with that, because I know how hard it is as a parent, not to have those opinions work because we know best we think we know best for our kids. So definitely stepping back and just you don't have to answer immediately, you can sit back and think about your response before you before you give advice or ask questions or whatever comes next with what you want to tell them.

Thor Challgren 16:10
Yeah, I remember, somewhere along the way with our daughter, I heard this piece of advice. And I wish I had heard it much sooner was the best thing that you could do as a parent, one of the best things is to ask them, what do they think they should do? Like constantly put it back to them and say, Well, what do you think you should do? What do you think your options are here? Because then if you're doing it, that you're engaging their creative problem solving part of their brain, as opposed to you just saying, This is what you should do. You're saying, Well, what do you think you should do? And then they might tell you, Well, I could do A or B. And then you could ask them say, Well, what, what are the consequences of doing a? What are the consequences of doing b? And probably a lot of times, they're gonna go, oh, you know what, they're going to solve it themselves? Because you court sort of created that dialogue for them to solve it themselves.

Tina Souder 17:01
Absolutely. And you know, and that works with, I teach that to my parents and little kids, too, because it's so easy to put ourselves in that parent role, where we feel like that's what we're supposed to do is tell them what to do. Give them advice, where I'm a parent, I'm supposed to tell you, you need to do this, you need that. And we think that's what they're asking for. When honestly, they probably already have an idea when they come to you what, what they want to do. But they're probably just looking for some validation? And what if you give the opposite answer. So why not ask them? Especially if that's something that could go either way? You know, why not? Ask them? Like you say, what are you thinking? Like, what is your, where's your mind going right now? What do you what are you leaning towards? And then then I'll kind of think about that perspective or something like that.

Thor Challgren 17:48
Yeah. And then I think what will happen is, if we already know what the answer we would give them right, when they asked the question, we know, we would say, so if we say to them, Well, what do you think you should do? And then if their answer is how we would have answered it, then then you just say that makes sense. Do that? Yeah. And then you got what you wanted. But they came at it from the standpoint of choosing it themselves, and then getting validation from you, as you say that, yeah, that was the right answer.

Tina Souder 18:15
Absolutely. Perfect Point. And it typically works that way. A lot of times too, because you train them, they're probably going to already be geared in the problem solving ways that you train them through the years anyway, if you've had those kind of talks before, so yeah.

Thor Challgren 18:32
When you think about the generation of your boys and then maybe compare it to your own experience of leaving home? How do you see this generation of kids compared to when we were growing up? Were they are they more ready? Less ready? What do you think?

Tina Souder 18:50
I feel like they're more ready, just based on course, it's just unplug from a very small, like a rural community, and you kind of look at your numbers that will go to college, and then the ones that succeed, the ones that don't, and to me with the technology that we have, and just the kids now, compared to when I was in school, know, so many things and options about what's out there, where when you're from a rural place like I am, you're limited with no enter, you know, not much internet out there at that point with cell phones weren't even there. So we know farming, we know, teaching, we know, nursing, and that's about it kind of in our area. So the scope is just of what's out there, isn't there. Kids nowadays, it's at their fingertips, they have the availability, even in rural communities, to see so many different options. And I think that can give them a lot more aspirations that some before they don't those three categories don't fit them. They could say I'm not going to college. I mean, I want to do this. Yeah, but if they can see 50 They're going to want to go to you'll pick something

Thor Challgren 20:00
Right. That's a great point. I think that when I was growing up, I had two college choices. I got into both of them. But that was all I did. And now kids, if they're thinking about it, a lot of them will apply to many schools. And, you know, they could be in a small rural community, but on their phone, they can pull up pictures of what it's like to actually be at that school. So they probably know way more than the sort of pre cellphone pre internet generation where we didn't have as much knowledge to go on. So in that way, they're certainly more prepared now, aren't they?

Tina Souder 20:35
Absolutely. And it's, it almost is mind blowing, when you think about it when we just answered that question. And how limiting things were at that point in time. And it's like, I would be excited to know what I might have done. If I had known more at that time.

Thor Challgren 20:51
Do you think, you know, when you think about this is a person who helps people as a counselor, too much information can also be not good, right? I mean, that can be overwhelming if they have so many choices, and so much information, how do you counsel them to sort of narrow things down so that they can make a choice?

Tina Souder 21:13
Very true. And I did work in the schools with some because I had a teaching background with some career counseling. So that is a factor because there are you know, they'll have all these vast ideas. And a lot of times they'll have one that's, you know, very out there. And then they'll have their secondary ones that make more sense that sound more realistic. But you have to a lot of you have issues with your kiddos, who are have disc problems making decisions anyway, those kids are going to struggle, whether you have five choices or whether you have 15 choices, because they just don't make decisions. Well, big decisions anyway. So I think you have to go from the perspective of teaching them decision making models, and how to pros and cons how to let's lift it out. Where could you picture yourself, do some visualization type stuff, and see where they can actually see themselves. And even visiting places virtually I know, my youngest son had the choice of a couple of different colleges to play football. And he had made his mind up, he was going to do this one particular college because his friends were going there. We went and did the visit. We did the tour. We went and talked to the coaches, but I could tell by his body language, I wasn't feeling it. We didn't speak but I just could tell. He even goes to the line gets his his badge with his. He's admitting hemming. He's getting his admission picture and badge and everything. And we're in line to get that and I just kind of walked over to him. I was like, Are you feeling this? And he just looks at me and says, I don't know. And you're as a parent, you're like, Okay, I knew I was thinking he was feeling this. So sure enough, he ended up not going there. And we found the perfect fit. And he went and loved what he did after that. But I think before that moment, he thought that was his choice. So I think you've got to kind of get in there and then see if it feels right.

Thor Challgren 23:06
What do you think would have happened in that moment? If you had not had the presence of mind and sort of be able to read him? And had you not gone over and asked him that question, do you think he would have ultimately ended up there?

Tina Souder 23:19
I think probably not. Just because in that moment, I asked him, and both of us thought it didn't feel right. He did go ahead and sign up. But we left there talking about it. And we just he explored other options. He started looking around, I think he would have went there had he not found another option that felt right, he would have made it work kind of a thing. But I was so relieved that he didn't end up going there because I think I don't think he would have ever lasted long as that football program or anything.

Thor Challgren 23:50
Yeah, I asked that because I hear that sometimes with parents where they say that the open lines of communication are so important that the fact that you went over and said, Hey, how are you feeling about this? gave him the opportunity to open up and talk about it's almost like you're saying, hey, you know, it's okay to talk about this. I won't be mad, it won't be a problem. Like, I think sometimes that's all they need to hear from us is whether it's that choice of school, it's changing a major anything big like that is to know it's okay to talk about it.

Tina Souder 24:22
Yes, very true. And I think that that's where it comes back to that safety and where you when you talk to your kids just not always analyzing or Clara even clarifying what they're trying to say to you. But more or less just listening to them and letting them know that their ideas are good. They're they're valuable. And then how have you thought about this? Add in a different twist to it but still letting them learn to, to think for themselves? Very much. So that's a good point.

Thor Challgren 24:51
Yeah. I'd love to shift our conversation now to your perspective as a professional counselor. You may not work only with empty nester parents. But these kinds of changes that people go through that parents go through, they can be similar to the kind of change that people deal with in losing a job or the loss of a loved one or a relationship ending. So when you think about people going through significant changes in life, what kind of tools do you have? Or ways do you help your clients to deal with this kind of separation challenge or kids leaving home.

Tina Souder 25:31
Change is probably the top thing I see come through my doors. And you don't think about that when you're getting into the mental health professional profession, because you think that you're going to be working with depression and anxiety and things you know, more of your your DSM diagnosis, things, which there is a diagnosis, that's called adjustment disorder, that I would say most of my clients will qualify for adjustment disorder, because they're coming to me because something has happened that is shifted them off balance in some form or fashion in their life, which is change, whether it be like you said a death or job loss, or just their kids leaving home or having a new baby, there's anything that could cause something to change in their life. And then learning to adjust to that. And the way talking about it, I do a lot of talk therapy, but we work our more specifically with thinking and their cognitions and how they view things. Because if you see the change as a kind of like you said earlier, as a positive, you can shift your the way you feel around that, where if you constantly are thinking about how horror or what all the horrible things are that are associated with that change, then you're going to continue to be sad and stuck in that process, instead of looking into the the proactive side of it, of what you can do to get better. So really trying to work with them on shifting their thinking is primarily what I do.

Thor Challgren 27:07
Do you see when people are dealing with change? How much does comparing their situation to someone else or their situation compared to their expectations? You know, like if you if you're a parent and you look around at other parents are like, well, they don't seem to be having a problem with it. Or this doesn't seem to bother my spouse, like why? What's wrong with me? How much do you think expectations play into how people deal with change?

Tina Souder 27:37
Very much. So because I think we even if we try, I think everybody goes into every situation with some type of an expectation. And I try to really prepare people, I hope I can get them on the front end of a big change. And then we can really work on diminishing that expectation. Even when I work with kids we work on, I do a little exercise about percentages and how you can 100% think that this is going to happen. But what's gonna happen if you're 100%, that's like you're at the top of the ladder, and look how far you're gonna fall, if that doesn't happen. So teaching even my kiddos to, you know, let's only go up about 40 50% or four or five rungs on that ladder. And if you fall, it's not near as far because other things could happen along the way. So it's just human nature to expect, we don't want to think there's going to be a fearful situation at the end of it. So we'll set ourself up and then not prepare for that negative side of things as much as we should, I think,

Thor Challgren 28:41
Yeah, I recently read a book called Life is in the Transitions. And one of the points the author makes is that we think that life will happen in this linear fashion and that there will be certain transition points like you know, graduate college, get your first house, get in a relationship, get married, have kids, and we think everything's gonna happen in this predictable linear order. And he makes this point no things happen all out of order. And things happen to you sooner than you thought later than you thought more often than you thought. And so his point is, change is a constant, you are always transitioning from one part of life to another. And the more that you are open to that and not having that expectation that life has to be a certain way. Ultimately, the happier you'll be.

Tina Souder 29:36
Yes, I totally agree with that. I feel like you are and it's some kind of a motto I've always lived by is you're either moving forward and having change in your life, or you're going backwards and you're regressing or you're just stuck. And I have I guess a fear in a sense of being stuck or going backwards. So almost in a sense of embracing change. Almost to the extreme, because I'm always looking for something new and different. So seeing that side is easy for me. And it's a joy, I think, to get to share that with others and to try to get them to see that point. And when that light bulb does come on, and they can see that what you just said that change is inevitable. That's okay. This is the way it's supposed to be, what if I wouldn't have had this happen, then I wouldn't be where I am today. So being able to see kind of the positives that are in it,

Thor Challgren 30:28
Mm hmm. Of course, every person is unique. But if someone came to you say, it's me, and I'm feeling sad about a child leaving home, or I don't know what to do next, how do you start to guide the conversation, in order to be most helpful to that person,

Tina Souder 30:48
I would say, if you're coming refresh, and your child has just left, I would probably first work through the grief cycle with you because you are in a state of change that is normal. And I would try to help you to see the normal see of illness let you be in that state for a bit of time, because you you need that you need that grief time. So you do go through those stages of grief, even when your child goes to college because it is a loss. So letting them kind of sit in it for a bit, as I'm putting out there, kind of this is where we are now working. And then we'll start working, especially towards purpose. So I think you've got to then and I density, because you've got your parent coming in, that their identity has always been attached to this child for 18 years, you know, and now this, they get a degree that they got to grieve that identity loss too. And then start working with them once I feel like they've worked through that grief process, then to start looking at okay, purpose, let's look at what your new purpose could be. And what what is your identity? Who are you? And what kind of goals can we set now? For you? What do we do next? So I think it's you couldn't just go straight into doing something new until you actually let them grieve through what they what they need to go through with the loss.

Thor Challgren 32:09
Yeah, I think that's so important. I mean, I, the one thing you hear about grief is you can't rush through that. You can't just sort of bury it down, because it will come back. Yes, at later points in life, if you if you don't deal with it in the time and allow yourself to feel it.

Tina Souder 32:26
Agreed. And you see that so much. And then you'll have people come in four and five years after and realize that something else is wrong. And then when you backtrack, and you start looking a little deeper, you realize, and they realize to that, wow, that's probably where this is coming from, where they think they're past it. But they really just kind of pushed it to the side. And either were too busy or just kind of fell into it almost a numb state of mind. And then it crept up and bit on later on.

Thor Challgren 32:57
Yeah, I think about my own relationship with my mother, she passed a couple of years ago. And at the time, I don't really think that I felt it as strongly as maybe I thought I should have maybe that's the comparison thing. I mean, I certainly I grieved but I in some ways, I felt well, I've got a I've got to be strong to get through this. And who knows, that's one of those things that maybe the comparison part comes in where you you start to now go, well, am I am I having the right reaction? Am I processing this in the right way? And that that can be challenging to

Tina Souder 33:33
Yes. And it's interesting, you say that, you know, I've dealt with some people who've gone through grief and loss. And it's like a child. So you've got I've got the dad and the mom. And oftentimes, in this particular case, I'm thinking of the dad is processed through it a lot faster. And the mom will continue to come to therapy, and she's just doesn't understand why she's still there. And they're not and almost a resentment towards the others that why they can just move on and what how can they just forget, forget our child like that, you know, and because they're not on the same page. So I think that's a whole nother dynamic. When you have a child going to college, you may have one of one that's easing into it, and the other one may really be struggling, and then that the couples having to learn how to communicate that and I think that could add another dynamic to the to the whole situation.

Thor Challgren 34:32
Yeah, I mean, I can say for me, that was absolutely the case was I was primarily the parent that raised my daughter. I mean my wife obviously here but I was the one that was the soccer coach and the Girl Scout troop leader and all of those things. So it hit me harder I think than it did my wife and I would look at her reaction. She's like, hey, you know, go back to work, get things done. very pragmatic. And I remember that first year it was a lot harder for me than it was for her. And that can bring up that feeling of like, well, there's something wrong with me.

Tina Souder 35:04
Yeah. Good point. So how did you get through that?

Thor Challgren 35:08
I think it just took time, I think I just recognized, you know, what I sort of measure it in is the airport drop offs, meaning like, every time, we would have to take her to the airport to go back to school, it was like, the most painful thing the first time. And then it got easier and easier. And then she's in her fourth year now, she just went off to Europe for a semester abroad a couple months ago. So she's, like, 5000 miles away. And I was like, good, it's fine. So I think you just get through it, but you know, that it's just the work you have to do to get through it.

Tina Souder 35:48
Yeah, and that's a good point. And that that would be hard. And something I never had to deal with is, my kids were, you know, two and three hours from me. So they work a day's drive if I needed to get to them. So I think that makes it a little easier to or some of these parents have kids, you know, going across the country to different schools. And that's a whole nother level of sadness, I would think and fear.

Thor Challgren 36:13
And, in our case, because that was what happened with our daughter, she's across the country on the East Coast, we're on the west coast. So five hour flight, but we will always come back to that positive, which was, she's at the school she loves, she's in a place that she's happy with. She's thriving, like, that's ultimately, what you want for your kids is you want those phone calls, where things are good, they're happy, they're excited, they're making friends, they like their classes, like, that's what we want, is to send them off into the world and have them meet, you know, the people that they love that, that excite them to start their own journey. And that's, that's why you do it. Right?

Tina Souder 36:54
Absolutely. And, you know, that is what I try to instill. I teach a lot of parents with younger kids, and I want to paint that vision for them to the reason why your parenting like why, what is your purpose as a parent, it is what you just said it is fixing a home and the boundaries, and just the foundation of having this child that can learn from what you're giving them from a perspective that is so vast that when they step out, they know what to do because they've been taught, they know how to make decisions. They know how to use the decision making models to make decisions where they don't have to be for every single thing and the confidence in doing so and not question their every single move, and then to be happy. And that's what you want as a parent. Because when you see them graduate, when you see them get married, when you see them smile and be happy and excited about what they're accomplishing. Nothing makes you happier as a parent because that that's what you wanted.

Thor Challgren 37:57
Yeah, that is so true. Well, let me ask you one last question. Let's say that you look at the fullness of your life and everything you did from being a parent, and then everything that came after that the work you do with people that you help you look at all of that, if being a parent turns out not to be the best thing you'll ever do in life, what does a greater contribution look like in life for you?

Tina Souder 38:27
You know, that's a tough one. Because, you know, you think that's, that's your job. And you want to continue doing that with your grandkids and that kind of thing, too. But I think that's a good question. And, and a point of, even directly to me, because I'm a helper, that's what I do. I help with my counseling, and I was a teacher. And now I'm progressing on to helping in fitness because I've always been in fitness, and I'm using kind of my learning from my fitness with my mental health training as well. So going from a one to one, we're sometimes I feel like, It's me against the world, in my office where I can see some weeks 38 to 45 people a week, which is a lot for one counselor. So it's draining. So I'm hoping to go and you know, for eight people week isn't gonna change the world match. So I'm wanting to go from a one to a mini kind of a context with some programs and working where I can touch more with things, and I think make a broader impact with different aspects of life, whether it be fitness and health for adults or teens. But knowing that I can share what I've learned over the years, and if it helps as many as I can, that would be a great accomplishment and just know that my kids think can see that happen in me while they're going and doing their thing too.

Thor Challgren 39:44
That's great. I love that and also you're showing them what's possible in their life, aren't you? Right? That's true. Well, Tina, if there are people that want to reach out to you learn more about what you do, how can they best get in touch with you?

Tina Souder 39:57
The best way would be through just my Instagram page. handle which is just @TinaSouder. S-O-U-D-E-R. And my Instagram is pretty new. Just starting up with the with the new fitness portion of them. It's called Think Body Positive and working through fitness, but also how to set your mind right for not just you know, losing weight, but getting yourself healthy for the rest of your life and getting your mind and your body healthy. So yeah, they can find me on there.

Thor Challgren 40:29
Great. Well, I'll make sure we put that in the show notes. And thank you so much for being on the show today. I really loved our conversation.

Tina Souder 40:37
It was great. I enjoyed it too very much. Thank you Thor.

Thor Challgren 40:40
Alright, Thanks, Tina. Take care. Thanks. Bye bye.