+ Episode Transcript

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Thor Challgren 0:00
Welcome to the show. I'm so excited for you to hear today's interview. If you've listened to my podcast before, you may notice it's a little bit different. In case you haven't heard it yet, I go into why I made this change in episode number 27 titled, appropriately enough, let's talk about change. So take a listen if you haven't yet, I dive into why I made the change and the new direction for the podcast. So my guest today is Joe Magnante. Jill is an empty nester herself, and she is also a high school English teacher. So she has a unique perspective on how we as parents can support and encourage our grown kids once they leave home. We talk about how to let go of expectations when it comes to choosing a college. We also talk about how to support our kids when they have decisions to make and how to avoid making the decisions for them. We also talk about the importance of communicating your love for your kids. And because Jill is a 12th grade teacher, and she sees dozens of her students leave for college every year. We also talk about the reasons why we can be encouraged that our kids will be okay out in the world. If you are looking for a little encouragement and support in this transition in your life. This is something I specialize in. I'm a certified life coach and I work with parents just like you. If you're in that season of life, I'd love to talk with you. Let's do our first call for free. Just go to discover.yourturntofly.com and schedule your free call. That's discover.yourturntofly.com. Alright, let's jump into today's episode. I hope you enjoy my interview with Jill Magnante.

Thor Challgren 2:00
I have an interesting history with my first guest today because she was my daughter's 12th grade English teacher. And as parents were used to addressing our kids teachers as Mr. or Mrs. So I don't think I've ever spoken to a teacher using their first name. But I'm going to take a risk and assume that's okay. So I'd like to welcome to the show high school teacher Joe Magnante. Welcome Jill, I assume that is okay to call you gel?

Jill Magnante 2:32
Absolutely, absolutely.

Thor Challgren 2:34
Do you get that from other parents, like people that you've spoken with out of the context of knowing their kids?

Jill Magnante 2:41
You know, one of the things is that we live in the community where I teach. And so I do have a fair number of families that, you know, we're neighbors we are, you know, I've gone to church with some of them, or, you know, our kids have been in sports together. So there's certainly a relationship with a lot of them. Where obviously, it's a first name basis, but it can be a little bit awkward, you know, but I typically, you know, as quickly as I can, I'm like, call me by my first name.

Thor Challgren 3:10
I love that. Well, one of the reasons I wanted to talk with you on the show is that I feel like you have an interesting perspective because not only are you an empty nester parent yourself, but you also teach 12th Grade English students, so you see them in a way that we as parents may not. So I want to talk with you about your own personal experiences as a parent. And then also what you see in general, from students who teach. Does that sound? Okay?

Jill Magnante 3:40
Absolutely.

Thor Challgren 3:42
Perfect. Well, let's start with your perspective. As a parent, you have two sons, as I understand they're grown now one graduated from college, the others in college, when you when your sons were still at home, what kind of parent do you think you were like on a scale of detached parent at one end of the scale? And and the other is helicopter parent? Where did you think you fell?

Jill Magnante 4:09
Well, first of all, I would say that I think my husband and I very much CO parented. And it wasn't something where we had really clearly defined roles, as you know, well, mom does this or dad does that. And so, I think that, you know, there were times where it would shift to that, you know, sometimes I felt more tension or he felt more attention, but we were able to kind of, you know, obviously share that responsibility and kind of take the pressure off of one or the other. But it is kind of funny, I would say that my husband maybe was a little bit more of the helicopter parent, and I certainly wasn't detached but I was raised in a very, you know, kind of manager grades manager time kind of household. And so I I think that I tended to be a little bit more, you know, supportive of their self sufficiency. Mm hmm.

Thor Challgren 5:06
Do you think that's something that is not gender based, but it's curious that I've not heard of like a dad being a helicopter parent, but I wonder if, if dads have a different relationship to their sons in that way, then maybe a mom would?

Jill Magnante 5:21
Well, I think some of it also comes to personality. I mean, my husband is, He teaches math at a local high school as well. But previously, he was a professional athlete, and there's a lot of attention to, you know, being on time and making sure that everything's done. And, you know, the boys were both really active in sports, and both jet, you know, juggle pretty, you know, heavy school schedules. And, you know, the one thing that we always prioritize with our kids was sleep. And, you know, and it wasn't something that was a fight. And I can honestly say that I had a son graduate, you know, as valedictorian, and the other, you know, was headed right there, he would have been valedictorian, but he wanted to take an off for his senior year. And, you know, this is it by one class, they both are like, outstanding students. And they both went to sleep on a regular basis by 1030, every single night. And so it wasn't this like rigidity, but it was just, you know, expectations were always just really established. But I could feel sometimes that my husband was a little bit more into, you know, checking the grades and things like that, and why don't really know. But you know, I'm the youngest of five, and I joke that I was raised by wolves. But, you know, we just had, you know, that was a different, you know, we just kind of approached it differently. And I think I was just able to be a lot more relaxed parent having been an ant, by the time I was 10. You know, you just have different life experiences. So the other thing, too, is that I was often at their schools. And so there was an awareness that I had, that I didn't need to necessarily be, you know, right on top of everything. So, you know, I look back and, you know, I think sometimes we needed both. But, you know, I wouldn't call him a helicopter parent, but he was probably a little bit more, I will say nervous, and, you know, cognizant of some of the more, you know, specifics of their grades and things like that.

Thor Challgren 7:31
Right. When you think back to that last year or so, before each of them left to go to college. What did you think for you as a parent, what was what were the biggest challenges that you face knowing they were going to be leaving?

Jill Magnante 7:49
For some of it, I think that I had confidence that they were ready. And also having taught seniors by that point. You know, I think it was definitely easier for my second son, but with my oldest, you know, we went through the whole college admission process and looking at, you know, my husband graduated from UCLA, his father graduated from UCLA, my son wanted to go to UCLA. And, you know, the reality of, of the UC application process is one in which I tell students all the time you earn the opportunity to buy a lottery ticket, and you put that work in to buy the lottery ticket. But after you buy the lottery ticket, you have to let it go. Because it is it there's a certain amount of luck involved about whether you're the one of you know, 350, engineering students who get a spot. And it's not because you didn't work hard enough. So you know, we really thought that, you know, I think had he'd been accepted, he ended up being waitlisted at UCLA. But I had explored and with him, and I actually had gone with him on some trips between his junior and senior year to look at out of state schools. And I promise I did not brainwash them. But ultimately, both of my boys ended up choosing the University of Missouri, and I grew up in Missouri, but I really felt like there was a lot of it was just fate, that, you know, we happen to stop at the school the day that there was a, we scheduled a visit the day that there was a honor student orientation or, you know, admissions there. And, you know, it just really ended up truly being in the right spot. And my kids both have had phenomenal educations. But there was that fear, like, oh my gosh, she's moving away from me.

Thor Challgren 9:49
Yeah, that's, I think one of the universal challenges. I was just thinking about this the other day that last weekend my daughter was abroad. She's studying abroad now. She was, according to the little map, she was 6500 miles away from me, which is the furthest away, ever. I can't believe I know that fact. But it's challenging that first year,

Jill Magnante 10:14
I was gonna say you talked about the the, you know, the little GPS locator or the app. And that is one thing that I often have to remind myself that there were times in my college experience that I'm thinking, like, I'm so glad my mom didn't have a GPS tracker. But I also, you know, we have our whole family on that. And, you know, it's one of those things that you have to learn that balance. And I think that that's actually a really important conversation about what you're comfortable with and what you commit to. And, you know, the first week after we dropped my son off at college, I mean, I had some theories ugly cry on the airplane, I'm pretty sure they thought somebody had died. And, you know, I was missing him. And it was a Sunday night, like, the first weekend of school. And I pulled up the phone, and I'm like, What is he doing in the cornfield? And right outside of his dorm is this. It is a historic test field for the School of Agriculture. And of course, it's right next to some fraternity houses and things like that. And I'm like, What is he doing? I mean, oh, my God is, you know, is he been murdered? You know, and I am just having this panic attack. But then I'm like, I don't want to call him because then I would be that mom. And, you know, I'm just having this, you know, just moment of panic. And it took us a couple of weeks to figure out that on Sunday night's it's like the satellite has to kind of reorient, and he was in his dorm the whole time, honestly. And but it's just it, you know, it gets a little bit off, and it resets. And, I mean, but it was that moment of like, I need to trust that he's gonna call if there's problem.

Thor Challgren 12:07
Okay, so I have to ask you, since we're talking about that, when you knew in those sort of moments, like, what are you doing in that spot? Because I've had exactly this, like, what's my daughter doing at that house there in Northwest DC? Did you ever go Hey, I saw like, what was like? Did you ever ask him about that? Like, because then you don't want to let on that you're like, looking at where they are? Right?

Jill Magnante 12:31
Yeah. You know, I think that you have to practice deceptive questioning, you know, yes, sir. How was your Sunday? Were you know, did you have a lot of homework or, you know, but, I mean, he was I, and I mean, he is truly who he is meant to be an I joke. And this is a loving, loving term in our family, but he's a total engine nerd. And he spent so much time in the engineering Rocket Lab, you know, that if he wasn't the one that was out partying all the time, and things like that. But if there were some funny questions, just about, like, you know, how were things and, you know, trying to go round about, but I think he also knows that again, like, my husband's the one to check a lot more than me. But again, he also will pick up the phone. And, I mean, he calls them a lot to the point that sometimes I'm like, Yes, you know, but, you know, I joke, he's, he's the, he's the talker. He sat, you know, he played, he played, you know, 12 years and Major League Baseball plus minor leagues at college. And there's a lot of times sitting on the bench and talking. So it's like, he's in the car. And he, you know, calls and says hi to the boys, or, you know, what have you, but you just have to find that balance of it.

Thor Challgren 13:51
Yeah. And I think the, that the great thing in a way that I certainly didn't have grown up and none of us as parents did was things like FaceTime, where you could actually have a face to face conversation. When that first with your your oldest son that first fall, were there things like FaceTime or conversations that made it a little bit easier. How was that first semester for you? As a parent?

Jill Magnante 14:19
You know, I will say that as maybe as the dad of a daughter, I, you know, I don't I don't want to, you know, stereotype it, but me and my two boys are like, seriously, you want to FaceTime, you know, that that was not something that either one of them were particularly keen on. But, you know, we did have to kind of come to some agreements that hey, let's just try to check in on Sundays. Give us a call, you know, and you know, he was doing well and he was really happy. And, you know, it's one of those things where it truly is hard to be sad when you see your kids happy and thriving. And, you know, problem solving, because that was the other thing, too is that there were a lot of times that he would you know, call and we'd have really brief conversations. And he'd be like, I'm sorry, my, my, you know, I don't really know, you know what to talk about? Because if he's going to talk about calculus, I don't understand that. But he said, you know, the thing is, is you're problem solving yourself, you're not encountering a lot of obstacles and issues, you're figuring things out. And so that's awesome. And, and I'm fine with free phone calls, and just quick pillows and texts and things like that.

Thor Challgren 15:37
Do you think there were times and this is something that happened with my daughter where that protective parent in me would hear her describe a problem or a challenge that she was facing? And I just wanted to like, jump in and solve it? And I had to like, go, Oh, I got to back up. And let her deal with it. Did you find that to be the case when then when they first went away?

Jill Magnante 16:01
Yes. To a certain extent, I think that there are two specific incidents that come to mind one with each boy. But my oldest, it was laid on a, you know, let's say Thursday night, and the phone rings, like at 10 o'clock here. So that's 12 o'clock in Missouri. And, you know, of course, automatically, I'm flipping out, like what's wrong. And he was panicked. I mean, he was devastated because he had a major project on a flash drive, and he had left the library and come back to his dorm and somehow lost the flash drive. And, you know, we were, it was, it was quite a bit, you know, I'm gonna say maybe five to seven weeks into the term and maybe even later, but he, you know, I said, you know, we should email the professor right away, you know, let him know, and what are you going to do? And he said, Well, I'm going to start re constructing the project, you know, and put it together. And I said, Well, you do that. And you need to, you know, I said, this is a case, if you need to pull an all nighter, you pull the all nighter, I mean, you need to problem solve, even if he even if the professor doesn't accept the project. And, you know, he got an email from the professor the next day. And, and this is one of my big things, I have a, I do not ascribe to the belief that, you know, we tell kids like, well, in college, no professor is going to blah, blah, blah, you know, you know, the threat of, of zero tolerance in any situation, I think is is not helpful. But what Mark realized was a hit, established a relationship of respect. And he had been consistent. He went to all his classes, he turned all his work in, he participated in class discussions, he was doing well on his test. And that professor showed him the grace that He rightfully, you know, deserved. But at the same time, I give that Professor a lot of credit for, you know, being supportive and understanding of the mistakes out there.

Thor Challgren 18:08
Yeah, I love that you. One of the things you said was, what are you going to do? Because I think that's one of the best things we can do for them is to start to try and get them back into the idea of personal agency, like, what's their solution to this challenge?

Jill Magnante 18:24
Yeah, yeah. And that's, I mean, it's really interesting, because we immediately had a bond with the admissions rep that at the time represented Southern California, but being from Missouri being from the same area, we actually had a couple of mutual friends, you know, through our spouses and things like that, that I had, I had some lines of communication that I wouldn't necessarily say, you know, lots of families have, but at the same time, Missouri was very open to, you know, if you have a concern, you know, they were open to communication and, and, you know, it's one of those things where it's gratifying to know that, and I would say that it would have had to have been a really extreme circumstance that I would have ever acted on it, or chosen, you know, to make that call and it's really my second son that I would say is that I found the phone to a friend. And in his freshman year, you know, he wanted to be a he wanted to go into sports management. And you know, I'm a big advocate in you know, the the kids dreams or their dreams. And there's some pressure with their dad having been a professional athlete, that a lot of people would think, well, are they going to play baseball and they didn't they played volleyball, and, you know, are they going to you You know, Oh, he wants to be in sports management is he going to be an agent? And you know, I don't really know what it was that he thought sports management was, but that's what he wanted to study. And I was really grateful because the university requires all students to take an introductory course into the major. And he about a month and just school, Luke calls me one day at school. And he's like, can you talk and I'm, again, you know, just have that moment of like, Oh, my God, what's wrong? And she says, I want to change my major. And I'm like, okay, and it was, let's talk about it not because, you know, Mike, and I didn't particularly. I don't mean that we didn't love it, because we didn't want him to do it. But we are also realistic about the employment odds. And also the lifestyle for people that work in professional sports, behind the scenes administratively, you talk about people that devote their life. And, you know, they don't have weekends, they don't have holidays, they don't have family time. So you know, we talked about it, and my son really it was in that class that the the professor said, are you in this major, because you're a sports fan. And a lot of the kids raised their hands, and he said, You know, it's really the wrong reason. Because you don't really get to be the fan. And at that point, Luke was like, this might not be the right place. In terms of the major, of course, I'm flipping out thinking, Well, is it that it's not the right school for the major that he wants? Should he have gone somewhere else? And are you unhappy? And, you know, and I called my friend Aaron, who's an admissions rep, and he works in the Greater Kansas City area. And he, I said, what, you know, what do I do? And he's like, us, you know, just see what he wants to do. And, you know, is he happy? It's, you know, is it? Is it something like, have you given him permission to say like, it's okay, if it's, you know, if he's not happy with school, and we talked about it a lot, and he kind of walked me off the edge of the cliff. And, you know, and I called him back, and we talked about it some more. And I said, you know, we support you, you know, and your data. And I've always felt that you have to make up your mind about what you want to do. And it's not about money, because, you know, our only goal for them is that they find a career that they find fulfilling, and that they feel that they can be happy with the lifestyle that would afford them. So, anyway, again, we go back to the what, what are you going to do about it, and Luke had already done his homework, he already figured out, I want to go into statistics, I want to do this, I've talked to this person, he had already been proactive, but calling and kind of talking through it, and just allowing him to kind of process it and us to process it too. And, you know, just assurances that, you know, we supported it was was key,

Thor Challgren 23:05
I look back to my own upbringing. And I think those are the things that my parents did exceptionally well, where when I had moments like that, where there was a big change your decision that I had to make, they were so supportive of me and never gave me a sense of being judged, or Oh, that's not the right call, or really, do you think that's what you should like, they were just completely like, whatever you want to do, but knowing that, of course, you're responsible for that. But I think that's, that's sort of the mark of parenting, where you can show the love, but you also give them the support to become who they're going to be.

Jill Magnante 23:46
Yeah. And I, you know, I will say that, I think for myself, I love teaching. And I feel that at a certain point, I realized that that was what I was meant to do. But I also had a lot of people that would say, Is that Is that all you want to be, you know, you could be a lawyer, you could be this, you could be that and, and, to a certain extent, I have to say that I had a clear sense early on, it was something that I wanted to do. But I also would say that living in a very small Midwestern traditional town, you know, being a young woman wanting to ultimately, you know, someday get married and have a family and things like that. I saw it as a as a good career choice as well. And, you know, that was the one thing is I I was grateful that we ultimately were in a place and a time where my boys did have more opportunity to say, what's out there. What are my options? And you know, I stated kids all the time, like, your world is so much bigger than my world was. And that's good and bad, in that, you know, sometimes it's overwhelming how many options are out there, but it's also so affirming that there is a place for that. And you know, it's so important, especially like going into, I've got, you know, all these seniors going into the college application process. And it's overwhelming, and it's I, it My heart hurts for these kids, as you know, they're so stressed. And it's like, you can only do what you can do. And, you know, I always tell them that ultimately, you need to just decide that where you end up, you need to bloom where you're planted. And that's, that's, for me, you know, watching these kids, then in the spring, I mean, April is probably my least favorite month of the year, as I've seen teacher of seniors, because you watch these kids just have their hearts broken, and, you know, march into April, and, you know, and you see kids that you know, had, just we're sure that they were going to have a certain path. And, you know, it takes a lot of encouragement and a lot of just reminding them, and that doesn't start in April, it starts from the moment that we start building these relationships with them that life offers us a lot of paths that we don't necessarily think we're gonna go on, or directions that we're going to heaven. And sometimes, you know, we're sent in a direction that we didn't expect, and you have to bloom where you're planted.

Thor Challgren 26:28
Let's talk a little bit about your role as a teacher now, because what I've always sort of found fascinating is as a teacher, and I think back to my daughter's last year of school, she worked with people to help her do essays and all sorts of things, and in some ways, about her thoughts of the world. They knew about her more than I did, they knew sort of what her dreams were that they could see how she was expressing herself. So as you think about in general, the 12th graders that you work with, what's your perspective on their readiness to head out into the world? And maybe, you know, if you compare it to your own readiness at that age, how do you see this generation of students?

Jill Magnante 27:15
Well, I think right now, in 2021, it's a different conversation. And, you know, the last 18 months, two years are really overwhelming when you consider the disruption in the kids lives. And I saw a post not too long ago on social media that talked about like, the last normal school year that the kids have had, and I actually now teach 11th and 12th grade students. And I even noticed that I think a little bit more with 11th. But you know, when these kids when their last regular school year was eighth and ninth grade, and now we're looking at, let's look at college, and let's I mean, it's undeniable that they're in a different place. But I don't think that we have to approach it as deficit thinking. I think we have to approach it, that they're in a different place. And, you know, we look at the soft skills, about being able to communicate, being able to advocate, being able to make choices to say no to, you know, have confidence in your decision making, which sounds like scary, because sometimes you watch these kids, and they can't, you know, it seems like they can't even like, you know, decide where they want to eat, you know, or they want to eat it in and out every day for, you know, you know, six months in a row and you're like, Do you realize how much that costs, you know, it's not always, you know, they're not always making the best decisions, but it's like, at the, at the, their core. If they have the skills there, they're going to be fine. And the colleges know that these kids are coming in with a different experience, just like as their teacher in their senior year of high school, they're coming in with a different experience. And my goal is to get them as far as I can get them, but also maintain balance, and, you know, provide them with support and encouragement, and a reminder that, you know, life it, I mean, we're so fortunate, I mean, life has been hard that we're not at the end of the pandemic yet, but you know, that there is a lot that we have to be grateful for and a lot that we can do. School is harder in some respects this year, but I'm so grateful to be Back in person with them, because you can get kind of a pulse on where they're at. And, you know, I just think that, you know, I, I'm not saying that it will be the same, but I also think that these kids may walk out of high school, going to college, you know, able to appreciate opportunities, and able to appreciate the opportunity to go to college to have in person learning, I said to these kids, I mean, I was really hoping that it would be this year's college freshmen. But clearly, it's very different still, it's really these kids that have the best hope have a fresh start. And so that's a real important goal to work towards.

Thor Challgren 30:43
Yeah, I think that's what I think conversations we've had with our daughter is the middle part of her college experience was during the pandemic. And so we talk about, yeah, that, frankly, it sucks. And you can't change that. But what you can change is how you view it, and the meaning that you give to it. And, you know, we go well, on the bright side, you at least got to spend your first year and a half, making actual friends being on the campus having that experience. I said, So that mean, there may always be people that, you know, the ones that had to graduate in the last year of the pandemic, and that like that was the end of their experience. So I guess you can always boohoo yourself, but if you look at it, and go, Well, where am I better off maybe than someone else and, and just be okay with that. Yeah. And

Jill Magnante 31:37
you know, it's interesting, because our oldest did graduate in December of last year. And, you know, both boys came home in March, and you know, all four of us doing school from the house, that was fun. Um, but, you know, my oldest, I mean, he was in his senior engineering classes, and he would be locked up in his room for 10 hours working on the pre engineering lab. And this is, you know, where you're in that, like hands on lab experiences, and he's watching on videos as some, you know, professors like, well, here it is. And, you know, it, it was really hard. And, you know, did was I thrilled about paying for an extra College, an extra semester of college. Well, no, there's a lot of shoes, but I'm just kidding. But the, you know, but I look back, and at least he had some semblance of normalcy when he went back on campus. I mean, it still wasn't the same, but he still was able to get into the, the rocket club. He was he worked with a group of kids that, you know, they were in rocket competitions. And he earned a level three, you know, rocketry certification, which is all I can say is, that was a huge like, like, test thing, video they sent me I mean, the stuff that he was doing was way more than he would have ever done from, yeah, the bedroom of the upstairs of our house.

Thor Challgren 33:05
Yeah. And I think to maybe in the fullness of time, they'll have this perspective that I feel that we as a society, we're probably always moving in this direction. Anyway, this just accelerated it. So now they're getting kind of a crash course. And how do you interact online with people? How do you make the best of that, that otherwise they wouldn't have had that?

Jill Magnante 33:33
I agree with that. But at the same time, I would also say that, you know, for me, I think that this affirmed that you cannot replace in person education, this idea that, like someday, all college is going to be online, I think that there is an element that is missing, if that were to happen, would be missing, if that were to happen. But I also hope that it's been a little bit of reframing for parents, because, you know, I look at it, as, you know, really bonus time that I had with my boys, because, you know, I didn't really expect both of them to ever be home for an extended period of time. Like that, again, in their lives. And, you know, at first there was there was something precious about that. And there was, you know, I felt good knowing my boys were home and safe. But, you know, as time went along, it was certainly clear that this isn't the way we're meant to live. And, you know, as much as we think we don't want our kids to, you know, go away and to leave us. We do we do want that for them, you know, we do want them to pursue their hopes and their dreams in their lives. And you know, and even our empty nesting year was really disrupted and it wasn't that my husband and I, you know, we're, you know, out living In this crazy life, I mean, we're teachers tired every week, but you know, we've been planning, we were planning a 25th anniversary trip to France. And, you know, I would have been like, I'm not, you know, I'm not leaving my kid home. And, you know, it was just it, there's the shift, and I was like, I'm leaving my kids at home, I'm going to France for 25 days. And, you know, that didn't happen. And so, you know, I think that it's an opportunity for, you know, a reset as parents as well, because we can't, you know, that this mindset that we love our kids, and we want them close, but that's not always what's best, or what's what's reasonable, given where they might go in terms of pursuit of their own careers.

Thor Challgren 35:50
Yeah, and I think I'm with my daughter graduating this coming six months, I'm I'm now at the place where I don't think it's likely that she'll come back home, and I'm, that's fine with me. I mean, I it's not like she'd been living in our house anyway. But if she were to live in this area, or live in Southern California, I feel like at this point, I'm okay with her living where it's best for her.

Jill Magnante 36:15
Yeah, and I think too, it's really particularly hard with Southern California, because we look at the affordability of it. And, you know, my, my youngest still would like to come back. And you know, on those negative 19 days in January, it certainly looks enticing. And his degree is going to be in statistics. And he went on and added an econ major, and certainly has opportunities, you know, everywhere. But I told him that, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, I need you to come home and live with me. But it also needs you to be realistic about what's affordable, and what your goals are. And if you choose to pursue work in Southern California, it might be necessary to live with us to save up money for a period of time. And that may not be the thing that you know, a 22 year old really wants to do, but at some point, you know, again, that's like the part of like, well, what kind of decisions? What kind of choices are you going to make, so that you put yourself on a path that you can, you know, be happy with?

Thor Challgren 37:28
Right. When you think about the students that you've had, go through your class, and the things that you know about them, or the perspective that you have about who they are? Are there things that you feel like they would love to be able to tell their parents, but that they can't, and that it's maybe a perspective that you have just from seeing how they are in the classroom?

Jill Magnante 37:56
Yeah, that's a great question. And it's interesting, because some of this has come up in the, you know, conversations in recent months about, you know, Equity and Diversity and, and, you know, talking about, you know, teaching minorities in that perception that, you know, will, you know, you need to care for them, and, you know, you know, if you're trying to, you know, help disadvantage, you know, kids, and it's like, there's also an important point that I'm not their parent, and I try to really, you know, I want kids to know, I care deeply about them, and that, you know, I support them, but I also try to be really, you know, careful to not try to be like, you know, a replacement mom or a parent. And, you know, that's one of the things that I I just there's so many times where I don't I would I find myself encouraging kids to be open with their parents. And I'm not saying that I've never been in the position. But I think it's been rare that a student has really talked to me about a lot that they're not comfortable talking with their parents. And you know, that I think that they also see me really lead with open communication is so valuable, and hard conversations need to be had. And, you know, that's the awesome thing about literature's there's so much that literature teaches us about life. And it's easy to have a conversation about that when you're reading a short story. You know, Zora Neale Hurston wrote in 19, you know, 25, and there's some sort of generational conflict and, you know, but it lends itself to a conversation about being open and about being honest about what you want to pursue and what you care about. And so for that, I would say that, I think that kids are probably a little bit more open In 2021, then maybe our generation, because there's stuff I would never have talked to my parents about. Yeah, my dad was a high school teacher, but I just, you know, that wasn't the way it was.

Thor Challgren 40:14
Yeah, it's interesting. I have a daughter that's gone out you have Son so that, you know, we have that singular perspective. But every year in the spring, you see 2025, kids leave, what's that like for you to see those kids go out into the world and know that? You'll see some of them? Again, you might hear from them, but some you won't? What's that experience like?

Jill Magnante 40:39
It is, so it's really interesting this year. Well, last year, starting last year, I've taught every grade between sixth and 12th grade. And, you know, I didn't I taught at the middle school level for nine years, and I didn't leave middle school because I was unhappy, I just felt that it was time to stretch. And, you know, my boys had never really seen either one of us struggle to find a job or make a job change. And I felt that there was something really good in my kids seeing that. So one of the things that I can say is that I mean, some of the kids, and in serious year, I had taught some of those kids four times, I have kids now that I've had for three of their four years of high school English, you know, I know these kids. And it's so interesting, though, because whether I've taught them for four years, or I've taught them for 10 months, there is a natural tendency to be excited about the future, but nervous, it's scary. Change is hard. And the, you know, the kids will consistently say, you know, I'm gonna stay in touch with you, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna come see you and, and I welcome that I, you know, I, I am sincere in saying stay in touch. But what I don't say to them, is that it's okay if you don't, because those moments when you need to feel that support, and that closeness from your high school teachers is so important. But when so many of these kids go on, and they live happy and blessed lives, it's okay. If, you know if, if they, if I never see them again, you know, it doesn't mean that I won't remember them fondly, or that they won't, you know, sometimes think of a teacher, but that's life is about seasons. And I think that, you know, we really learned that in our years with baseball, because there's a lot of change. And you know, people you're in and out and doesn't mean that your time together wasn't special or important. But it's it's okay to move on to a new season of life. And so I'm sincere and being excited to hear from them. But I'm also not sad if if I don't hear from them, because they're thriving and happy. And well.

Thor Challgren 43:13
Yeah, I love that. When you think about where you are now, as a parent, and if you were to have the opportunity to go back and talk to your younger self, when they were first leaving and whatever you were feeling, then what would you now say to you then to make you feel better, or to give you a perspective that might help at that point in your life?

Jill Magnante 43:43
You know, I just, I don't know that I would change anything. I mean, there were some rough days, but I, you know, I think I've been I've benefited from being a teacher and seeing these kids go on and be successful and see some hit some, some stumbling blocks and have to, you know, write their path and find a new way. But, you know, I've also been touched by tragedy and when you lose a student and the borderline shooting, and when I lost my own nephew to suicide, and he was a senior in high school, and my kids were just in kindergarten in third grade. You know, I I'm grateful for the the journey that they've had. And, you know, the one thing I mean, in some ways, like, especially losing my nephew, it kind of broke me as a parent early on, where I really feared them being upset. I, you know, I was never going to get mad at my kids. I was never going to, well, that doesn't happen. But kind of learning to overcome those fears. But to be open, I mean, there's not a time that goes by My boys don't hear I love you. I mean, to the point that it annoys them, you know, but you know, but I'm very vocal and expressing my love for them, and that I'm proud of them and that I'm happy for them. And, you know, the, their experiences being away from home have been good for them. And, you know, the the sad times for me, you know, like, it is hard. I mean, life's changing. And, you know, sometimes that's scary. But, you know, you know, as my younger son is so pragmatic, he looked at me one day, and he's like, Well, it's better than the alternative. And it's like, you're right. I mean, every day is gift. So I just, and so I just honestly say that I would not, I don't think I would do it differently.

Thor Challgren 45:56
Yeah. I mean, we're on the journey we're on and the things that we experience are part of the journey part of our lessons. And that's why we are where we are now.

Jill Magnante 46:06
Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, when I look at, you know, I look at really operating with that attitude of gratitude. And, you know, I just, I need to say this, because I, I mentioned losing a student Borderline by I lost a student that I had been teaching and 2020 When we went out on, you know, on to virtual school, and she had cancer return. And Caitlin was, she was the most vibrant, and affirming student that life mattered, school mattered. And, you know, and so, you know, I think that there are so many times where we look at, you know, 700,000 Americans that, you know, had did not make it out of the pandemic, and we have so many people, like the Caitlin's that, you know, that, you know, I just, I just look back and I just really have to just choose to live every day with gratitude.

Thor Challgren 47:07
I love that. Well. Thank you so much for this conversation today. I am certainly grateful to you I mentioned before we started how grateful I am to you with the the work you do with my daughter helping her become who she is today. And I just so appreciate you and being part of this conversation today. I hope that people hear this and have a better perspective, maybe about where their kids are and that things are going to be okay.

Jill Magnante 47:40
Absolutely. And you know, that the the rough seasons in life are really what make us appreciate the times that we celebrate. Yeah, so thank you. And you know, you know, Sara, she's one of my one of my treasures.

Thor Challgren 47:57
Well, she was so excited. I was going to be talking with you so I can't wait to tell her how it was. Okay, wait, Jill, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Jill Magnante 48:05
Thank you. Take care

Thor Challgren 48:06
You too.